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We’ve received tons of questions about this bag from readers wanting to know, “Is it really that good?” We’re tackling all your big questions and sharing readers’ Rebecca Minkoff Julian backpack reviews. Find out why we think this is one of THE best purses for travel ever!
Rebecca Minkoff Julian Backpack Review
Table Of Contents
I first purchased the Rebecca Minkoff Julian Backpack in 2015, and it’s still one of the best purchases I’ve ever made. In fact, it’s the ONLY purse I owned for two years aside from one small cross-body bag.
It was ideal for my needs, and I used it for everything. I even used it to travel for one week luggage-free! It’s stylish, versatile, and perfect for carrying all your essentials.
Since I’ve had this bag, I’ve raved about it all over the blog, and many other female travelers also caught on to the fact that this purse was ideal for traveling. In fact, so many of our readers love using this bag for travel that even the Nordstrom and Rebecca Minkoff brands started marketing it for that purpose. (Note: We don’t have a relationship with either of those companies.)
We’ve put together this Rebecca Minkoff Julian Backpack review because many of our readers want to know why there is so much buzz around this bag. Not only will you hear my feedback, but you’ll also read Rebecca Minkoff reviews from the readers who own this backpack purse. We’re answering all the biggest questions so you can decide if this bag is worth it.
It’s important to note that this is a backpack-style purse that wasn’t necessarily designed for travel. However, it has various features that make it the ideal traveling purse for women looking for an alternative to the popular cross-body bag.
Learn to Pack Light Stylishly with my e-book!
I traveled for one week luggage-free with the Rebecca Minkoff Julian Backpack.
Read about it here.
Rebecca Minkoff Julian Backpack Basics
- Style: Rebecca Minkoff Julian Backpack
- Dimensions: see details below
- Material: leather, canvas, or nylon
- Weight: the regular size is 1.9 lbs and the medium is 1.0 lbs
- Color: various sizes, prints, and textures
- Opening Type: front loading
- Features: three exterior pockets (including one back “secret” pocket), three interior organizational compartments
- Security: exterior latch has the option to cover main zipper access when locked at the top ring, unofficial “secret” back pocket
- Travel Type: perfect for carry-on, vacation, business, and city break travelers
What’s the Big Deal About the Rebecca Minkoff Backpack?
A quick summary as to why I love this bag: It looks attractive, it’s spacious enough for all my daily sightseeing or plane essentials, it has a secret pocket for my passport or wallet, and I’m happy wearing it with all my outfits every single day of the year at home and while traveling.
Choosing the best travel purse can be stressful? There are lots of factors to keep in mind so we’ve happily broken down the criteria you should consider when selecting one. Take a look!
What Size is the Rebecca Minkoff Julian Backpack?
The Julian backpack-style purse is available in several sizes. We focus on the regular (or large) backpack and the slightly smaller medium Julian backpack. First, here are the dimensions of each bag:
Regular Size Dimensions: 11.25” W x 12” H x 6” D: Rebecca Minkoff | Nordstrom | Amazon
Regular (Large) Size
The regular size (also known as the large size) is more appropriate so you can fit taller items, like a water bottle or iPad. I’ve even used it with an 11″ MacBook Air.
Medium Size Dimensions: 6” W x 10” H x 5” D | Rebecca Minkoff
Medium Size
I’ve found that the medium size Julian Leather backpack is perfect for minimalist travelers or for women who don’t regularly use large purses.
As you can see, there isn’t too significant of a size difference. The biggest difference between the two sizes is the height. However, you’ll want to base your decision on how much you want to pack.
I own both sizes and personally prefer the regular size because it holds so much. It can act as my personal item on a flight or as a spacious day bag for sightseeing. The medium size feels more limiting due to its shape, so I use that size when I don’t need much space.
Someone asked about fitting an iPad into the backpack, and one reader says, “I have the medium backpack, and it’s a real struggle to get my iPad Air in it. Definitely go for the large!” Another reader adds, “I also recommend going for the larger size in leather. It’s not that large or that heavy.”
You can also buy a Rebecca Minkoff mini backpack purse, which is a very small so might not be as suitable for travel.
Jumbo Size Dimensions: 12″ W x 17″ H x 6.5″ D: Rebecca Minkoff | Amazon | Zappos
Jumbo Size
The jumbo size Julian backpack is perfect for anyone who prefers larger purses or needs a bigger bag for an overnight or weekend trip. It’s also suitable for a business traveler, as it combines the convenience of a backpack but has an elevated, polished look because of the luxe leather and stylish shellac hardware.
If you notice, there’s more of a width and height difference between the regular and medium sizes. So, if you need a bit more room for a laptop, a change of clothes, and a small toiletry bag, this is ideal.
For longer bouts of travel, it can be as my personal item on a flight or as a spacious day bag for sightseeing, especially if you plan to be gone all day.
A repeat buyer and traveler shares their experience with the bag, “I love my Julian so much, this is my fourth. I’m using this one for travel and it’s the perfect size to fit what I need but still look stylish. My laptop fits perfectly in the back pocket so it’s very functional.”
Julian Backpack Purse (regular size) can fit quite a lot but doesn’t look bulky
How Much Can You Fit in the Rebecca Minkoff Julian Backpack?
One reader says, “I LOVE this bag for travel and use it as my purse/personal item. It easily holds everything I need for a day out and about — my friends call it my Mary Poppins bag!”
While traveling in Paris and London in winter, I was able to fit all this inside the regular size Julian backpack: sunglasses, reading glasses, water bottle, travel-size umbrella, knit hat, gloves, blanket scarf, extra thermal top, phone, wallet, and small daily essentials such as tissue, travel brush, hand moisturizer, chapstick, eye drops, etc.
Another reader who has the larger sized bag says, “It held my iPad with a keyboard, my clutch wallet, my eyeglass case and sunglass case, a sweater, a pouch I keep my earbuds, charger, and other cords in, snacks, a water bottle, and a pair of flip-flops.”
However, the medium is still roomy enough for many travelers. One reader who has the medium size says, “It held my iPad mini, and a very small water bottle fits in the side pockets (barely). It’s very light and the perfect size. Feels good on my back.”
And another adds, “The medium nylon was perfect for me. Fits a lot of stuff! I took an iPad mini, too.”
Read this for tips on how I packed for one week with only one bag — the Julian backpack!
Julian Backpack available in two materials including nylon (shown) and leather
What Material Is the Rebecca Minkoff Julian Backpack?
This backpack comes in two fabrics — leather and nylon. My favorite is the leather, because it’s so classic of a style. However, the nylon is lighter weight and less expensive.
One reader says, “I have both the leather and nylon and used the nylon all over Iceland. If it’s not full, it is compact, very lightweight and I could stuff a water bottle and sweater in if needed. Works for both city and sporty styles. Also the rain was repelled!”
Another reader adds, “I just traveled for three weeks all over Europe with the nylon backpack and love it! Hiked in Switzerland in the Alps and as far as Portofino! Even through rain the backpack still looks brand new! I carried two bottles of wine and picnic lunch with no problem.”
However, another reader says, “I prefer the leather version as the nylon one sags unless you have a reasonable amount in it.”
Not sure whether to choose the Longchamp Le Pliage Backpack or the Rebecca Minkoff Julian? We’ve compared the two, check out the pros and cons of each purse in this review!
The Julian Backpack features two side pockets
How Heavy is the Rebecca Minkoff Julian Backpack?
Weight is an important factor for a backpack, especially for long days walking and sightseeing, as you don’t want to end up with back pain. In fact, using a reasonably weighted backpack might be more comfortable for travelers who suffer from back pain as it evenly distributes the weight across both shoulders.
Back pain was one of the biggest reasons I stopped using shoulder or cross-body bags — the backpack felt more comfortable. I don’t find this backpack to be too heavy, even when I pack a ton in it, and many readers agree.
Even if you have back issues, this bag may still work for you! One reader says, “I have back issues (degenerative disc by my back of neck/shoulder area) and the weight on the leather has worked out fine for me. That said, I’m very careful about how much I carry on a daily basis.”
One reader says, “I have the larger Julian backpack, and I don’t find it heavy at all.” Another adds, “I have the leather backpack, and although I am sensitive to the weight of my other leather purses, the weight of this backpack is a non-issue. I’m 5’2″ and I can walk all day with it.”
As one reader says, “Leather is leather, and if it was a lightweight bag, it wouldn’t be good quality leather.”
And another adds, “Personally, I don’t think it’s that heavy for a leather backpack. I’d question the quality of the leather if it weighed less.”
Consider minimizing your luggage weight when you travel!
Rebecca Minkoff Backpack features the ability to lock at the top or bottom.
Is the Rebecca Minkoff Julian Backpack Good for Travel?
This definitely isn’t a backpacking bag or a backpack you’d take when trekking through the jungle, but I highly recommend this small backpack purse if you’re visiting major cities instead of rural areas. I love how many compartments and pockets this bag has, making it easy to organize your essentials.
One reader who has the regular sized bag says, “I think this bag is going to be a great ‘everyday’ bag as well as a good ‘personal item’ for travel. It easily holds everything I could need while out and about and will fit my Lenovo laptop if I needed to.”
Aside from being stylish, convenient, and roomy, it also looks like a regular purse vs. a utilitarian “travel” purse. And while it’s not technically an anti-theft bag, some of the features are perfect for keeping your belongings secure.
One reader says, “I bought the black nylon medium as my purse for a recent two-week trip to Spain and Portugal. I reversed the direction of the hook and clipped it to the top ring to help deter pickpockets. It looked a little weird, but I didn’t care!
“I also used a carabiner clip or my Lipault combination luggage lock clipped through the zipper to the top ring when we were in particularly crowded areas. I kept my phone, passport, and credit card/cash in the back zipper pocket so it was against my back. I know it’s not a slice proof bag, (but I wanted it!) and it worked for me.”
Note: We recommend you use it clipped to the top not the bottom ring.
The Rebecca Minkoff Julian features a “secret” back pocket large enough for a passport.
Is the Rebecca Minkoff Julian Backpack Worth the Price?
In my opinion, absolutely. This bag is so stylish and on trend, and it won’t be going out of style anytime soon. I love that these designer backpacks come in several sizes and fabrics, as well as so many different colors. From classic black and camel to fun blues and reds, you can find one for any style.
Several readers who own this bag love it, too. One reader says, “The leather seems to be good quality and the bag is very practical. Worth every penny if you ask me.”
Another says, “I would buy this again in a heartbeat.”
And a third adds, “I love mine! It’s my everyday purse now, and it’s really helped alleviate the back pain I was feeling from my cross-body bag. I certainly feel I’ve gotten my money’s worth out of it.”
For purses like this in other price points, read this round up of cute backpack purses!
The Rebecca Minkoff Leather Backpack shown here locked at the top as an “anti-theft” precaution
Why I Love this Purse
Many readers wonder why this bag gets mentioned on the blog so much.
The truth is, I only owned this one purse for two years, so I didn’t really have any other purses to talk to you about. And, I didn’t need to own any other purses because this bag was simply perfect for me.
Just like for many of our readers, buying the Julian backpack was not an easy decision for me — it was an investment buy.
After seeing it online on the Rebecca Minkoff website (but hesitating to purchase because of the price), I found it on sale during the Nordstrom Anniversary Sale. I closed my eyes, handed over my card, and didn’t think twice.
It was years since I’d spent that much money on anything, so I felt so guilty about making the purchase. Years later, the bag has suited my needs so well it’s been the ONLY bag I needed, so I’ve had ZERO reason to shop for any other handbags.
This experience taught me a big lesson in my purchase mentality. Seeing how that one perfect purchase has kept me from the need to buy a bunch of unnecessary bags, I’ve come to appreciate quality versus quantity.
Please note: The version that I own is no longer available. It is the regular (large) size Julian in black leather with quilted pockets and gunmetal hardware.
Watch this video
Rebecca Minkoff Julian Backpack Packing Video
I used my Julian backpack as my only travel bag for a one-week vacation. Watch this video to see how I was able to do it! If you’re an ultra minimalist, you can do it, too!
Read this article to find out how I packed for one week “luggage free” using only this bag. Tip: I packed all my clothing using just two slim packing cubes and this packing hack.
Where to Buy the Rebecca Minkoff Julian Backpack
Here’s where you can buy Rebecca Minkoff purses; Amazon, Nordstrom and Zappos, and directly on the Rebecca Minkoff site. There are a variety of styles available, and different ones go on sale throughout the year. That’s when we like to shop!
Shop for Rebecca Minkoff Julian Backpacks here!
Don’t forget to subscribe to my YouTube Channel for access to all my packing videos!
Watch the video to see how everything fit into my purse on my one-week summer vacation luggage free! Here are more pictures wearing my Rebecca Minkoff backpack purse:
Buy the Rebecca Minkoff Julian Backpack here!
What favorite feature would you add to this Rebecca Minkoff Julian backpack review? Share in the comments below!
For more travel purse reviews, please read:
- Baggallini Everywhere Bag Review
- Le Pliage Longchamp Tote Review
- Anti-theft Travelon Packable Backpack Review
- Best Anti-theft Travel Purses
- Best Cross Body Purses for Travel
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I just purchased the large Julian backpack in black. It’s gorgeous. Does the heavily pebbled leather soften?
Love my RM Julian and try to use it as often as possible. Fits enough for one over-night.. maybe two if you don’t need to pack shoes. Considering to get the large one too, to use as office bag. Thank you for recommending it.
Of all the tips that I have gotten on this website by far the best one has been the Rebecca Minkoff backpack. I received the black leather Julian as a birthday gift and it had been the only purse that I used for 2 years. I ended up buying a black nylon one on sale and have used this almost exclusively for travel. I travel with 2 young kids and can fit 3 water bottles plus my wallet etc. This is my go to bag for travel.
I am so grateful to you for introducing me to my all time favourite bag. Perfect for everyday, and fabulous for travel. I have flattened it inside another bag then used at my destination, or used as a personal item. Works well in both cases. I love the hidden pockets and the ability to clasp at the top for security. Thank you!
Absolutely love my pebbled leather black Julian backpack! It’s been my everyday bag for several years & love that it’s perfect for travel. Both functional and stylish. Thank you for your recommendation as I wouldn’t have discovered this wardrobe & lifestyle staple otherwise!
I have a large Julian in pebbled black leather with silver hardware. It has gone around the world with me multiple times as it fits the bill for both work and play. Even though I haven’t solely relied on it for my entire packing, it is amazing how much can be stuffed in it! I found using the toiletry bags the airlines used to give in business class work wonderfully to help keep things organized and not get lost in the depths of the bag. My version did not have a good sized interior pocket, so I had my tailor add one so I could keep my passport locked tight inside the bag instead of in the zip pocket on the outside. This bag really is worth the price tag!
How do I love my Julian backpack? Let me count the ways! I bought this bag for travel, but it has become my go to bag for work and play. Alex, thank you for shining the light on this stylish and practical bag. Thank you also for simplifying my travel wardrobe and my work and casual wardrobes!
Hello, my favourite travel bag too is the Rebecca Minkoff Julian Leather backpack, I have it in a beautiful dark green leather and received compliments while travelling to Europe 2019 for British Open Golf in Northern Ireland, and off th Paris to meet friends and a train ride with them to Antwerp Belgium. Perfect for planes and trains and travelling in boats for sight seeing and walking. It is so comfortable, hands free and easy to organize, fits comfortably too. I also have one of the small zip black leather cross body too – perfect for running errands and of course dog walking my Golden while at home. Rebecca Minkoff styles are just right, beautiful durable leathers, creative design, functional, practical and ease of use. Cheers Rosemary read your info on the backpack for travel and bought it. Brings me joy and comfort.
I have been pondering my purchase of this backpack for quite a while thanks to your blog’s awesome reviews. This detailed blog is so helpful! I am going to watch for sale and “add to cart”. Thanks!
I have the medium size black leather Julian (bought on Poshmark). It is perfect for traveling. I used it with a small crossbody for a winter girls weekend in NYC with one compass rose packing cube inside. My friends were amazed. I loved that I could “hit the ground running” as I went directly from the airport to a cafe for lunch and then a museum. It holds way more than it looks like it will and is comfy as a backpack or just on one shoulder. And it looks good. I don’t mind the typical travel purse look, but I’d rather carry this one! Best tip ever from TFG! Thank you.
I have my first RM in nylon. Has anyone successfully washed their bag? I have always used a Rick Steves ‘Civita’ bag for my travels adventure as I can just toss it in the wash when I make it home. The RM has a few tiny leather pieces on it, which probably means it can’t be washed. Any thoughts?
Hi Deborah, thank you for your reaching out! I have washed mine on the hand-cycle setting in the machine. We also posted your question on TFG’s facebook page to get you more feedback from our readers. Here are their replies: https://www.facebook.com/TravelFashionGirl/posts/2858069857549997 Hope this helps!
Thank you so much for a great comprehensive review and your wonderful sale info & links! Do you know if the regular size Julian bag’s dimensions have gotten smaller over the years? On the RM site the largest listed is 12x9x6in. I don’t see any more 14×10.
Would you be able to post a pic of your original Julian backpack with the actual measurements. Or maybe you could recreate the packing video with the newer version. The one in many of your pics looks much bigger. I have tried to fit iPad in mine and it simply will not fit. ABSOLUTLEY could not fit a change of clothes and other weekend items in the size they currently sell. And there is no way sunglasses will fit in the side pocket. In doing a bit of research I think the older ones were 18 inches. Thanks for helping me figure out the difference.
I lucked out & found a nylon Regular Julian on sale. I’ve been using it as a park bag for Disney World & I love it! The only real complaint I have is the dark interior lining… It’s like a black hole! I really wish RM would put a light or bright colored lining in these bags to make it easier to find things in the bag. (Light blue, lavender, pink… Something!)
Hi Shelley, yay!!! So pleased you were able to find a RM on sale! Thank you for sharing your review of your nylon backpack with us. Hope you have had an amazing time at Disney World! ❤️
I was going to make the same comment. Love the bag, but hate the black lining. Got it online at Nordstrom rack. I guess no one else wanted a forest green backpack.
One fact you might want to include in the article is the lack of internal pockets on the nylon bag. Also, the size of the back zippered pocket on the leather bags is variable. My last look at the gold hardware and silver hardware bags came up with a much deeper pocket on the gold hardware version, the silver hardware version could not zip closed with my iPhone 7plus.
Hi Nancy, thank you for taking the time to share you insights into your RM backpack with us! ?
I finally splurged on the Julian Backpack and I love it. Going to Italy in a few days. Some Museums require you to check backpacks and larger bags, am i correct to assume that I would have to check this bag vs. bringing a smaller purse?
Have you felt safe from pick pockets in crowded places?
Hi Kimberly, so pleased you loved your backpack!!! I have slung both straps over one shoulder in places where they didn’t allow backpacks (like a museum). I pretended it was a shoulder bag. Very rare though. You may find this atricle interesting about my trip to Italy last summer: https://www.travelfashiongirl.com/luggage-for-2-weeks-in-europe-summer/ If you are concerned about theft, these tips or products might be useful: https://www.travelfashiongirl.com/how-to-avoid-theft-while-traveling/ Have an amazing trip to Italy ?
I have my eye on the Julian backpack but can’t decide between the leather or nylon. Alex do you put your water bottle inside or in the outside pocket.
Hi Clarissa, I keep my water bottle in the inside of the purse. The outside pocket is only big enough for my sunglasses. Hope this helps. Happy travels!
I purchased the leather Julian backpack. Off to Europe tomorrow. thanks for all you very helpful posts.
Hi Clarissa, yay how exciting!!! I hope your backpack joins you on many fun and exciting adventures. Have an awesome trip to Europe!?
Hello! I love my bag (the pebble leather) and want to take it as my personal item to Scotland. Can you tell me how the bag “weathers” the rain? I would also like to know if you have any idea if the pebbled leather will soften up over time.
Many thanks!
Hi Pat, the style I have has smooth stiff leather, which has aged quite nicely. It hasn’t softened as much as a pebbled leather might because it’s a stiffer material. I haven’t used a leather protector, which I should. I’ve not had issues with it in light rain or heavy humidity. Hope this helps!
I’ve just ordered the Compass Rose cubes. I was wondering if one or two of them, (packed with clothes) would fit in the large Julian Nylon bag?
I travel light, minimal packing and have my eye on the bright blue nylon bag right now, I really like the size and style and truth be told I have too many other bags that I hardly ever use on trips, or at home. I prefer being hands-free, to which end I wear a Scott E Vest jacket with large pockets to carry the really important items, like meds, passport, money, Kindle, cell phone etc.
I envy you Alex, having just one or two bags you use all the time…….that is my goal for the near future.
Hi Paula, thank you so much for all your support, hope you will love your new packing cubes. You would definitely fit one CR packing cube instead a Julian backpack, you may find this article interesting about when I traveled for just one week with my Rebecca Minkoff backpack: https://www.travelfashiongirl.com/one-bag-travel/ My favorite type purse in general is a backpack style purse because I like that it’s hands free and evenly distributes weight across my back and the Rebecca Minkoff Julian Backpack is awesome for travel. Hope this helps. Happy travels!
Have you tried RM’s new “Esy Rider” backpack yet? They call it their travel bag. I feel like you’ve generated enough sales for them that they should send you one to compare and review! I’d love to know how they differ.
Hi
Thanks for sharing about this new bag! It looks really good ?
From what I can see, the two biggest differences are that the exterior pockets are at the top first the sides and that the straps are more versatile than before so it’s easier to sling over your shoulder.
TFG’s never received any acknowledgement from the RM brand despite how much we rave about them – I also agree they should send me a bag ?
I’ll let you know if I have a chance to check out this new version in person.
Thanks for reading!
alex 🙂
I am now in Spain, my bright blue nylon Julian is the Bees knees, I love it! I often carry it on my back and forget it’s there, it’s so lightweight and comfortable. It certainly packs a lot.
My go to brand has always been Kipling, now RM’s Julian has joined the gang. I might even treat myself to a leather one in the near future!
Hi Paula. Yay, that is awesome!!! So pleased you love your RM backpack. ❤️ Hope you are having an amazing time in Spain! ?
I also have the blue nylon… it’s been a trusty companion for years! I also use it a lot when out for day trips in the area with my kids. You can fit so much in it! I’m very tempted to get the black in black and the brown options, as well…
Does the “secret” back pocket hold a wallet? I bought a knockoff backpack and it barely fits a trifold wallet, and doesn’t fit my slightly larger wallet. Considering returning it and splurging on the real deal if the back pocket will fit a wallet!
Hi April, the secret back pocket is one of the reasons why I love this bag. I use it to keep my passport safe when I am traveling so it would also store a wallet depending on what size it is. Hope this helps.
I have the large Julian in leather. Even though I am only 4’9” I find it is very comfortable and never feels too heavy, even when it’s full. Love it!
Yay, so pleased to hear you love your Rebecca Minkoff backpack Barbara! Happy travels! 🙂
Okay – so I couldn’t swallow the price for the Rebecca Minkoff bag, but I loved the style and reviews so much, I wanted to find something similar before my Europe trip in August and I found this! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MTG4NI8/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
It was only $39.99 and is actually a bit bigger than the regular sized Rebecca Minkoff. It fit a ton, was comfy and checked all the boxes the Rebecca Minkoff did. Granted, not real leather, but it still looks great and I’m using it as my daily bag now. 🙂
Hi Paula, thank you for sharing this with us! So pleased you found a bag you liked for a reasonable prize!! 🙂
Just one more thing to note. I have the Regular/Large RM Julian. I considered the Medium but when I found out the the back pocket (the one that lies against your back between the shoulder straps) is different I chose the Regular/Large. While the Medium has the pocket it only fastens with a magnetic dot closure while the Regular/Large has a full zipper on that pocket. I wanted the zipper for security
Hi Lauren, great point, thank you for sharing this with us!! 🙂
Considering purchase of an RM guitar strap to try making a crossbody option to my regular size Julian backpack. Will it work? Perhaps clipping to the two D rings?
Hi Margaret, Sounds like a great idea! Haven’t tried it but I’d love to know how it works out 🙂
Please let us know if this worked and post pics! I want to use the RM Julian as my main backpack but with the option to convert to a crossbody when entering tourist sites that forbid backpacks. Thanks!
Thanks for the review. I am considering getting one. Do you ever use packing cubes in this backpack?
Hi Jackie, thank you for your feedback and for your question! We’ll share your question here so the author of the article can reply 🙂
Thanks for the recco! The medium is on sale at Rebecca Minkoff’s site right now for $123!!
Hi Mira, thank you so much for your comment! 🙂
I am wondering if anyone has had problems with entry into museums and other tourist attractions carrying The Julian backpack with the new security concerns these days.
Hi Michele, thanks for your question! We’ll share your question here so the author of the article can reply. 🙂
I’ve been to Europe alot lately, going to museums, and all they’ve asked me to do with the backpack is to wear it facing forward while in the museum.